Talk:Montgomery Osbert III
Hey, has anyone else noticed this page? I'm wondering about the logic of there being a page for this guy and KG's claims of him being longest lasting agent, one of the oldest, organisation of company type things never actually seen, and no mission logs/stories. Neshomeh? Trojie? Sedri? Araeph? hS if he somehow sees this? Thoughts? JulyFlame 04:32, January 31, 2010 (UTC) Well, I have to say it seems a bit ... excessively full of references to how famous and remarkable this guy is given he has no recorded missions, no backstory ... personally I like it when Agents' stories are revealed, well, in stories. Thoughts, anyone else? KG, care to wade in on this one, given it's your page and your agent? Do you have something planned for him? Is all of this going to be explained in a story sometime? Because if not, I hate to say so but it comes across as a bit gratuitous, mate. Agenttrojie 04:53, January 31, 2010 (UTC) I do plan on Osbert showing up in stories; the fact of the matter is that I just haven't finished the ones he has appeared in other than that memorial thing, which was to some extent experimental as it was my first time seriously writing the character (mostly due to it being the first thing that gave me the chance); because of this, it does have certain contradictions that might not stay, along with details that have simply been retconned. Unless there are human agents older than seventy-nine or eighty, that was my logic in saying he was one of the oldest. I'm basically trying to find ways to work him in and allow the character to appear, but he works for a part of the organisation that honestly doesn't turn up much, and part of the trick is finding ways to work him into things without his appearance being gratuitous. Backstories are in the works, but the problem I have with backstory things is finding a relevant time to write and post them. Otherwise, yes, he is planned to appear in things and have events explained; it's been a matter of what he can appear in. The idea's the same with the Raiders; I've thought out how they'll work pretty much in their entirety, including organisation and purposes (and in-canon backlash/objections to them), but haven't yet found something they can appear in, especially as their primary purpose only really comes in during emergencies or other sufficiently large threats to the PPC. The idea there was a response on my part to the constant emergencies and suggestions for them; basically, I thought they'd provide a potential means of nipping further emergencies and the like in the bud, given the backlash against them and wish to return to regular missions. Additionally, as Osbert and his backstory took shape in my mind it seemed that forming such a group for that purpose would be a logical course for him to take, especially in the circumstances of the 2008 Invasion where he'd already been forced to train a large number of agents to fight. I've talked the idea over with a number of PPCers, including Techno-Dann (I was going to bring the idea up with hS, especially since I thought it might fit in with his Cycle Theory idea, but the email in which I've mentioned it has not yet been finished and more concerns other projects), and they all seemed to think they were an interesting and acceptable idea; Dann mentioned that it might avoid a problem if they remained regular agents when they're not doing SpecOps-type work or training, with their own missions and partners and RCs and the like, which was what I intended in the first place. It was never my intention to cause a problem. Part of the problem is that I gave all of the information on the character as soon as he first appeared and I started on the wiki page; this is partly down to my own writing style, and I'm aware it has proved problematic in the past. In originally developing the character, he gave me the strong impression of someone who'd just always been there, due to his personality and his position as an agent trainer, which I admit rather drastically changed how I developed him. That was how him being one of the first came about; I essentially asked myself, "what if he had always been around?" I meant to ask about this, as I wanted to be sure it wouldn't raise any problems, but see above about the email. I thought it would provide some interesting character opportunities and the like, so I went with it. Again, I never wanted to cause such a problem, and I'm very sorry. 08:05, January 31, 2010 (UTC) Well then if I may offer a suggestion ^_^? Writing little interludes and mini-pieces of the 'in and around HQ' type, maybe little stories about Agent Training, or what he does all day (surely he does something, after all) might be a good way to introduce his character around a bit more. Plus Interludes and day-to-day HQ life are always fun to read, speaking as a portion of the audience, as it were ^_^ Agenttrojie 09:22, January 31, 2010 (UTC) I actually do have a daily schedule worked out for him, mostly around training people and his own free time (what of it he has, with needing to train so many recruits and agents), so that's something I could do easily. I do have one story in the works with him, basically him speaking to the Board about the Raiders in the aftermath of the 2008 invasion and getting their permission to keep the group around (which, I was thinking, could be used as an opportunity to develop his character and give me practise in writing the Flowers), but that could also help, and be a way for me to introduce and develop other agents of mine (of which there has grown to be an absurd number); I've just been a little wary of doing random interludes and such, but it's still something I could try. I was also thinking on doing some DIA stories with Basilico and Rischio in a similar manner, but it does seem like something I could do. The only real problem is that I already have an overwhelming number of writing projects to do, some of it outside the PPC, but it's something to do with a character I was otherwise stumped with. Thanks then, sorry for the hassle. 09:43, January 31, 2010 (UTC) I'm posting here, because July asked me to. If my understanding of the Wiki's purpose is correct, it exists more to archive published information than to hold profiles for agents who haven't made it onto the web yet. I think that's at least a large part of the surprise people are expressing at seeing it here. The other question that comes up (to my mind) is age - According to hS's history, Makes-Things was with the PPC at the very beginning, and he definitely wasn't in his 70s when he died. Some mention of how old Osbert was when he was recruited could help resolve that issue. Techno-Dann 04:29, February 1, 2010 (UTC) This is something I have also meant to figure out. Unfortunately, it's another thing I need to discuss with hS; specifically, I need to figure out when the two girls mentioned as being the next after Makes-Things joined so I can then pin down a rough date for Osbert's own joining, which itself would effect how old he was at that time. Basically, I'm sorry, but that's something I'll have to get back to you on when I myself know. Again, I'm sorry to have bothered everyone, very sorry. I hope nobody is too angry at me for stirring problems up yet again. Sorry. 04:44, February 1, 2010 (UTC) Dude, you haven't *bothered* anyone or 'stirred up problems', it's just you need to think about what needs to go on the Wiki and what you should store in your own personal files and only bring out when you're writing stories. That's all. Easy way to avoid this in the future; just think 'is there a reason to archive this here?' before you post :) Agenttrojie 06:41, February 1, 2010 (UTC) Some notes. Since it's apparently bad form to edit other people's agent pages when said other people still exist: some notes from the Great Read-Through. * Osbert joined some time after Elizabeth and Anya. * Osbert probably joined around 1985. * Osbert began as an agent in the Department of Action. They mostly dealt with Bad Slash. * After three more (unnamed as yet) agents had joined, Elizabeth left to start the Department of Implausible Crossovers. Anya and Osbert got a new third, who was not Josephine. * The Poppy wanted Osbert to form a dedicated team of assassins, and called him her 'ideal Assassin'. He resisted and/or refused at that time. * Some time after the DIC broke off, the Department of Action split into the DMS and DBS. Anya and Osbert stayed with the DBS half. This may be when they teamed up with Josephine. * In 1992, Osbert finally transferred to the DMS, leaving Anya to work with Josephine and Suzay. Huinesoron (talk) 08:26, June 15, 2014 (UTC) I'd certainly hope I still exist! I've actually been thinking about doing some stories with Osbert and finally have at least one idea for one, so having this on hand is helpful! I personally think he'd've been more suited to DMS than continuing Bad Slash work but maybe he switched over when the Department of Action split up. (Incidentally, how is the Great Read-Through going? I'd like to know when it's all right to go ahead with certain projects I've told you about. We've discussed why I'm hanging fire at the moment.) Ekyl (talk) 20:48, June 15, 2014 (UTC) : Well, he switched over in 1992; Josephine is very clear that he's only just gone at the beginning of Lofty Skies. The question of when the DMS and DBS split is still unanswered, I suppose. Alternately, you could just go with him either not knowing he'd be better off as an Assassin, or preferring to stay with Anya over following the Poppy. : The Readthrough is just hitting the end of Origins, which is why I'm currently writing about various ancient departments and agents. I have a couple of articles to clean up/do, and then I'll be fully into Origins 9 and making pages for Anya and, maybe, Elizabeth. Huinesoron (talk) 05:19, June 16, 2014 (UTC) :: I was about to say, considering he's my character I'll figure that out. :P Is there really enough on Liz to make a page on though? There's the implication she's no longer in the PPC, the fact she's one of the Originals and split up with the first team as soon as there were some other agents, and a first name. Though I suppose we do have some shorter articles on the wiki. :: (Hey, would anyone mind deleting those sections above this one? It's a lot of clutter I'd rather not have to scroll through, not to mention humiliating and irrelevant because I plan to do a big rework of the page and character. I can't seem to edit this page to do it.) Ekyl (talk) 05:56, June 16, 2014 (UTC) ::: This is why I should read the sources before editing... errata: *** Osbert is strongly implied as joining within a couple of hours of E&A; just after they accept the job, Makes-Things calls about 'another Merry Pseudo' in his lab. It's left not quite stated in the event that you want to tweak this. *** There were already several Action departments by the time E&A&O (can we call them the Vowel Crew? Also, calling it here: the 4th-6th agents have to have names starting with I, U, and Y) joined. That means DMS, DIC, Bad Slash at minimum (though that 'DIC' is Improbable Crossovers, the precursor to Implausible Crossovers and Despatch). *** E&A joined Bad Slash (under the Gladiolus) because Anya thought exorcisms sounded fun. Osbert would have been attached to them without much choice. *** The Poppy would have tried to poach him for the DMS, either as a solo agent or once they had nine agents total; no idea why he didn't take the offer, though I'm guessing Anya had something to do with it. ::: That's all I've got so far. (And yes, there's enough to say about Elisabeth) Huinesoron (talk) 06:30, June 22, 2014 (UTC) ::: Wouldn't most just call them the Originals, like Josephine did in Lofty Skies? And what's there to say on Elizabeth that hasn't already? We haven't even seen her except at the very end of Origins, we know more or less the same as what's known about Anya on that front (plus the fact she didn't work well with her so she split as soon as there were other agents) and that she's no longer around. Though I've told you about a story I'm planning so hopefully that'll change soon. And yeah, I imagine out of just wanting to stick with his teammate Osbert would've stayed in DBS with Anya at least for a good while; he's ex-military and they're all about not leaving your comrades behind, after all. I can figure out why he eventually switched departments when my backlog is cleared; I know it seems implied he at least kept in contact with both other members of the original trio, given he's the one who alerted the Poppy about Anya's condition and somewhere I said he knows Elizabeth isn't in the PPC any more. 14:36, June 23, 2014 (UTC) ::: Reading Lofty Skies, you've actually left an implied question as to why Osbert, who Anya shared her suspicions re: the Mysterious Somebody with, was ignored by "C'baoth"; it seems like he never tried to drive him insane, to turn him over to his side, anything. Since I plan to write some stuff with him and maybe about that era in general, I might like to chew on that a bit if you don't mind. Ekyl (talk) 11:25, June 28, 2014 (UTC)